And there you go

[yeloson]

delux_vivens linked a great interview with Chrystos:

You know, the world is not an all-white place. And anyone who doesn't want to acknowledge that has an investment in white supremacy.

It's good to be reminded how stunted our dialogue is.

White supremacy shifted to racism (because, you know, "anyone can be racist") shifted to aversive racism, shifted to prejudice, shifted to unconcious bias, shifted to cultural upbringing. It's like collateral damage being the new term for mass murder.

We are often presented with a false choice: either talk at this stunted level or don't talk about it at all. Another friend of mine brought up the issue of "good faith discussions". When you're talking about stuff like this, and someone steps in at this stunted level, how can you assume good faith? ("You cannot call this abuse. Please PROVE to me that the high velocity cranial treatment via digital application was undesired and undeserved, and then we can have a reasonable discussion.")

Are those people worth talking to? Can there be a "dialogue"?

And are these the discussions we want to have?

Comments

[machineplay.livejournal.com]

Welcome to our lives!

That's what smacked me in the face. I regret buying into the liberal trap of "let's talk until we reach a common ground". I'd have been a better friend to some people in specific past moment if I'd been more open to believing POC when they said there was nothing to discuss sometimes. I wasn't, I wanted to be friends with everyone, and I was wrong.

set enough boundaries...guaranteed to be labelled meen and too angry

Yes, and I did this one to myself (see above, lack of backbone). The longer I'm exposed to all the 'racefail', the more I respect those boundaries like the ones you have, the more I learn that I can have those about things like being queer and being female and now, apparently, about this. So, round of applause for boundaries. If you don't preserve yourself, there's nothing you have left to have the work you need to do, nothing left for yourself and the people who matter, and that, especially on top of all the other crap in the world, is simply not right.

(Also, how embarrassing -- for me, at least! -- is it that some of this stuff sounds like basic parenting? *facepalm* Chapter One: Dealing With Your Toddler White Folks. Oh, lord.)

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

Well, sometimes there is something to talk about, but a lot of times? Not really.

If you don't preserve yourself, there's nothing you have left to have the work you need to do, nothing left for yourself and the people who matter,

Pretty much.

some of this stuff sounds like basic parenting? *facepalm* Chapter One: Dealing With Your Toddler White Folks.

A lot of it is exactly like parenting, because whiteness and white supremacy enforce and uphold a system of interaction where white folks' infantilization takes priority over *everything*. When poc set boundaries: "no you cannot touch my hair. no, X is cultural appropriation and is not appreciated. No, you cannot participate in X safe space for POC" the toddler tantrum comes out of far too many people.